This is a theory which is often corroborated by human female behavior. While not politically correct, many males of the species believe that there is a strong possibility that the theory is valid.

The theory is a possible partial explanation for Just Friends Syndrome, a syndrome often observed in males, but almost exclusively those which are intelligent, sensitive, and caring. A typical manifestation is when a female of the species dates an "asshole" and something bad happens; then she calls up her male friend, who is termed a "nice guy" and possibly suffers from Just Friends Syndrome, and uses him as an emotional comfort provider.


Prole: So at which point do the women "grow up" (for lack of a better term) and stop dating the biggest manipulative jerks they can find? I too have seen what Dhahn describes far too many times, though it's mostly been with early 20-somethings.

My experience has been that most women will be attracted to assholes more than nice guys. For example, take this situation.

You and a group of your male friends are at a party. You look over across the room and see a woman that you would like to get with. However, she came to the party with Joe Blow. Everyone of your male friends knows that he is an asshole. But she does not have a clue. Maybe if she did, she would not be interested. But she is. It doesn't matter how many times you tell her that you know he is an asshole. She won't believe it.

Until.....


The asshole in him comes out.
Then, of course, you would think she would learn, but she doesn't. She finds another asshole, and the cycle continues.

Thus the phrase, "Nice guys finish last."

I must be in the minority on this one. I like men who are nice guys and nurturing males. That's "like" as in "am attracted to."

It's intended to be a comic overstatement when I say that we'll get along fine just as soon as you worship me as a goddess, peel me a grape, and wait on me hand and foot - but there's an element of truth there.

When it comes to men who are charismatic, ruthless, and unavailable, all I can say is I've tried that and I'm not interested anymore.

Profuse apologies, if this constitutes too much information.

This theory has been confirmed first-hand by a former roommate of mine, in a discussion involving, of course, beer, and the Just Friends Syndrome.

Guy roommate 1: *bitches at some length about how he can't get women, 'cause he's too much of a nice guy*

Girl roommate: "Oh, I'm sure you'll get together with some really awesome girl sometime. The nice guy thing really isn't all that much. Of course, my boyfriend was originally an asshole, which drew me to him like a moth to a flame."

Even more amusing over the course of the year was the seriously unresolved sexual tension between those two. I was just glad I could sit back and watch without getting involved.

I think women just aren’t attracted to deer in the headlight guys who complain that women only like jerks and never notice what a nice, sensitive intellectual they are. Confidence is important and jerks are normally more outwardly confident than whiners. I think this issue has more to do with guys who feel cheated than women liking jerks. "Oh woe is me if only she would take the time to learn how great I am instead of wasting it with those animals"


This is a good time to bring up the fact that so many of my nodes are excellent and thoughful but are often overlooked for stupid nodes that are a waste of nodespace and are not even funny or factual and that most people who vote on E2 wouldnt't know a good node if it smacked them in the face but I trudge along waiting for the day a high level noder will notice me and rock me back and forth telling me "baby its going to be ok" while voting me up up and away

Welcome to the home of circular logic.
I feel pretty qualified to speak to this issue because I used to belong to this club, but now I do not.

point 1: a man/boy becomes interested in a woman
point 2: he decides the woman is smart, talented, funny and beautiful and he wants to date her.
point 3- this may or may not be an accurate description of the person she is, since he has not actually dated her.
point 4- woman mentioned above is dating a guy that man #1 thinks is selfish and mean spirited (asshole).
point 5- man #1 tells woman that she is "better than that" and deserves better (i.e. -himself). She decides that she disagrees, prefers man #2
Now is man 1 saying he prefers this wonderful woman, despite what he considers her terrible judgment? Is he arguing that despite how she acts and how she prefers to be treated, she is the one for him? Would she just "go and change" once she is with him and is "appreciated"?

That logic is the same logic used to argue her away from him.. ??

In summary: Does either sex want to be with a person who is interested in self abusive relationships? Is that healthy to anyone?
If you are attractive to someone that masochistic, look in the mirror, do you want your own fuzzy doormat?

Two things:
  • Women don't like assholes, but they don't like dishrags and doormats either. If you're desperate, and believe me women can tell when you are, you're more likely to turn into one of the latter. It's not a sexy look on a guy.

  • Quite a sizeable proportion of the "nice guys" I've been friends with in my life aren't half as nice as they'd like to think. They use a nifty bit of lateral thinking - women prefer assholes, I'm not having any luck with women, therefore I must be a Nice Guy(tm). Let me tell you, they can turn decidedly nasty when they don't get what they thought they were going to get (namely you), and the accusations (you manipulated them, teased them, used them, strung them along) go flying. I've lost quite a few male friends over the years because, after several years of pent up sexual frustration, it finally dawned on them that no, I'm not going to.
We're working on beating a dead horse here, but I'm going to through with my little flog anyway.

The thing that no one seems to have mentioned at all here (unless I missed it, which is possible) is not just that "women like assholes," but that people like to feel special. Period. Sometimes people feel special because they have decided that they are special, they like themselves, etc. Sometimes people are looking for a little outside reassurance that they actually are pretty, handsome, cool, sweet, worth dating, etc. Most people are some mixture of both.

So, it begs the question. Why aren't "nice guys" capable of making a girl feel special? Probably because they are generally nice to just about everyone. I've always thought that was kind of the clincher. For someone looking for a tap of self-esteem, nothing works better than someone who is an asshole to everyone else. I must be special, because he told me I was pretty and he just was really cruel to that girl with the glasses, etc. That's overly simplified, but I think there is truth to it.

It's simple human nature. Why do any of us care who votes us up, for example? Why is it better that someone at Lvl 11 has given you a seal of approval than someone at Lvl 1? Probably because (at least we assume) they have achieved a higher level of dominance and thus are more discriminating. Besides, I'd argue that (at least most) women are hard-wired socially and genetically to find someone that can protect them and any possible offspring. In the pack mentality, this means people with dominance, and sometimes arrogance is easy to confuse as such.

In short, if you truly are a "nice guy", you probably don't have too much to worry about in the long run. Monitor your willingness to fall to your knees in the presence of a female and maybe they'll respect you for it. Show an interest in your own success, the improvement of your own life, and most people tend to notice. As for the others, if they're wandering through asshole after asshole, they probably aren't what you need anyway, even if you do worship them.

By the by, it is interesting how often this scenario seems to involve women that are particularly physically attractive. The "nice guy" is just looking for someone to make him feel special, too.


If you're a hard-core grrrl and resent the idea you could even possibly be looking for protection in a mate, I humbly beg forgiveness. I wasn't talking about you .. really.
One of my guy friends asked me that the other day, and it made me think. I dated someone who went from The Nice Guy to a bit of a jerk as we parted. Bah. Girls are kooky.

I think women tend to date the asshole because he makes them feel special. They have to go out of their way to be nice to you; meanwhile the nice guys are sweet to everyone. The jerks must first acknowledge your presence to be nice to you. This lets you know that you are known to someone who isn’t nice to just anyone, and automatically you are placed above everyone else in the room. If he further pays attention to you, then you must be something special, otherwise someone as high up as he would have just moved on. And if you actually manage to hook up with one of these Gods, then you yourself must be worthy of his devotion and attention. It doesn’t matter that he chats up other women while around you, because you know he’ll be the one taking you home that night, and not the flirtatious waitress.

The nice guy on the other hand is nice to everyone, and after a while you get used to it. “oh yeah, so and so sent me flowers again at work” things tend to be taken for granted when they happen often enough. Yet when he’s having a bad day, and makes a rash move, you are more likely to remember that than when he sent you the flowers because it never seems to happen. You think you earned the sudden outburst, and feel like a punished dog, who did nothing wrong. Nice guy tries to make it up to you, more flowers at work, or something else of the sort, but since it’s in the norm it doesn’t matter. Jerk man on the other hand might pull the same scenario, and send you the same flowers at work, and because it’s so different from his other actions, you feel special.

*shrug* just some rant from the peanut gallery
Women do not prefer assholes, as they are rather hard to get along with. But remember women are people, and some women do seem to prefer assholes. For many the cause is in their upbringing.

It has been pretty well documented that women whose parents had an abusive relationship often choose abusers themselves. Some of that is due to simple modeling. People learn most about how to live by observing those around them, particularly those who are close to them. Nobody is closer to a child than his or her parents. If Dad beats mom, well that's what men do. Violence becomes a part of love. Intellectually, of course, women know better. But sexual attraction is deep seated compulsion whose components are often irrational. Violence is normal so it's no big deal.

Another issue is self hatred, or low self-esteem if you prefer. The first woman I ever really loved chased an endless supply of men who used her. The issue wasn't that she really liked them, it was that she hated herself. Many people who have been abused don't really think themselves worthy of anyone good. They distrust love because people they love have betrayed them. They seek the users and abusers who represent their norm.

In both cases, the problem is that they really don't believe there is anybody good out there for them. Of course guys never feel that way.

And if you believe that I have a killer deal on some ocean front property . . . .

As a former 'nice guy' who never had a girlfriend, being nice is no excuse for lack of a personality. Women want to know that there's something in there. You are a person, express yourself! I know from personal experience that's hard when you don't believe in yourself, and you fear losing someone you want. But do it anyway. I started getting dates, and more, when I started developing enough confidence to let my personality out. No, that doesn't mean I get any women I want. Not even rock stars manage that. But I have enjoyed the company of some really special ladies. Sooner or later, one will decide to keep me.

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