In a node not far from here, TheLady began talking about geeks not wanting women to obtain knowledge. This caused me to think that perhaps feminists don't realize the enormous commonality they have with geeks.

Feminists state (correctly) that women have frequently and severely been mistreated for irrational reasons. They have been mistreated for merely being women. Consider this, feminists: we geeks have likewise been attacked (in the most frightening way possible, namely, we have been vitally wounded on foundational psychological levels) for irrational reasons (we seek to understand the universe in all ways). We are seeking to understand, and what we receive is psychological (sometimes physical) torture. We are told that we don't deserve love or sex*. Neither, they tell us repeatedly, are we really human; we are shunned from human society. All of this, merely because we like to think and ponder--merely because we are curious. This kind of "mind-abuse" is far worse than any physical abuse. If someone is physically abused, they still have their own mind to retreat to.

Feminists need to consider that we geeks are human beings, feelings and all, that need other humans. We are, in short, just like you. Also like you, we have suffered greatly. If you, as feminists, are concerned about mistreatment, please take pity on the suffering of other groups and fight for better treatment of all people. We are neither your oppressors nor your enemies. Rather, we are the oppressed. Think about this for a little bit. Thank you for listening to my ramblings.

* Before you get upset, remember that, for most people, sex is a basic human need--without it, most people will lose psychological stability. Although not understandable to those who do not need sex (which could be you, dear reader), lack of sexual expression is devastating to the human psyche. God made us with sexual needs. I am not, however, talking about the predatory sexual behaviors of many men, nor am I talking about lust. I am referring to the use of sex as the mutual expression of deep and abiding love between a man and a woman. If you are a feminist, at least consider the possibilty that sex can be used properly.

At any rate, this little article is not about sex. It is about the mistreatment of a segment of society.

I will be prepared to listen to these (frankly pathetically self involved) arguments from the first person who can come up with a definition of "geek" which helps define geekdom as a biological human grouping.

The definition of "geek" in the above writeup is completely self-referential - geeks are those who suffer for their active minds, and those who suffer because of their actve minds are geeks. Two points:

There are probably lots of level headed, logical reasons why geeks are nothing like feminists. But honestly, I can't raise the energy to take this issue at all seriously, because serious is what it ain't.


moJoe: I was beaten up at school, I was bullied by the boys I had crushes on and their friends, I had no one to talk to, I couldn't believe that any man would ever love me, I was lonely, I was depressed. This doesn't consitute a political identity.

Those things are personal. Any reference to them is emotive. They hurt.

Equal pay for equal work, paternity leave, sexual harrassement, the glass ceiling, domestic violence and scores of other "Feminist Issues" are not personal. Certainly not all of them at once, not for anyone I ever met. Women (and men) care about these issues not because they have a chip on their shoulder, but because they have a social conscience, and they think making the world a better place for others, even if it's already a fairly decent place for them, is worthwile.

I don't see any signs of a wider social cause (beyond lip service) in the petulant clamour of the miserable cases some people put forward to be recognised as some kind of opressed minority. You might as well walk over to the other side of puberty and say that overpaid computer consultants and high-tech company CEO's should recognise the inherent injustice of having been captain of the football team and Prom King and then having to pump gas for the rest of your life. How far are you prepared to take highschool grudges?

And while we're on the subject of perspective, yes, I can most certainly think of things that are worse than having your ass grabbed and being stuffed into a garbage can. Let's see, dying slowly of hunger, watching your children die before you; being sold as a child bride at 9; giving birth to a heroin addicted baby and knowing it is not going to survive the de-tox because you have no money and no insurance; hitting a landmine and losing both arms and both legs for no reason; being orphaned by AIDS, malaria or cholera and having to feed your younger siblings by prostituting yourself and contracting AIDS in your turn; am I getting my point accross yet?

It's nasty to be bullied at school, it's awful not to have friends when growing up - I should know, I've been there. But from social ineptitude to a social movement... No, sorry.



Women--constantly confronted with jeers, sexual remarks and clowning and sometimes sentiments of inequality by and from the dumber sex--are going to tend to see this as the worst possible thing that could ever conceivably happen to a person short of rape or murder.

I have some news for the world, being a "geek" (more often referred to as a "fucking dork") and reflecting upon the nightmare that was being ignored, shunned and then alternately physically assaulted, insulted, spit on, laughed at, threatened and humiliated daily (by men and by women)--I'd take being leered at or even an ass grab or two a day over going through what I went through ever again.

You may not agree; an ass grab! Holy cow! Could there be a worse fate? Yes, for me it is called being kicked in the nuts or perhaps being shoved in a garbage can. I feared going to school, every morning was dread; every eve, reinforcement as my fears were actualized on a daily basis.

Would you like to know what I did to be finally be left alone?

I snapped.

I actually had to physically beat someone bloody to get people to pay me respect. I couldn't do it with my mind; there was no number of books that I could read or pictures that I could draw that would have ever gained me the respect that I received for kicking the ever-living fuck out of a football player one day after school. I am not nor will I ever be proud that I did that. I have always been rather proud of my artwork.

Does this sound in any way familiar? Women tend to get quite upset when their worth is gauged by the over-all volume of their breasts. There is no real difference between that diseased social activity and any other of its kin.

Growing up as an untouchable I can say with a fair amount of authority that once women discover that they are "better" than you are they can be even crueler than men can. People get judged for things that are irrelevant and unfair and the sooner that the division line is between the judged and the judges and not men and women or black and white, the sooner we can actually begin to get somewhere.
"Geek" and "Feminist" are not mutually exclusive. I consider myself both. I like male geeks, as they are (in my experience) less likely than non-male geeks to look at me only as a body -- those who value their own minds also pay attention to mine. If the two groups have anything in common, it should be an aversion to being judged on superficial attributes.

There are certainly feminist non-geeks who do not value geek attributes, just as there are male chauvinist non-geeks who do not value them. Anti-geek believers are not representative of all feminists, nor all male chauvinists. Anti-feminism is not representative of all geeks, nor even all male ones. Setting up an opposition of "feminists" vs. "geeks" is like setting up an opposition between "left-handed people" and "black-haired people" -- there'll be some overlap and some people who are in neither category, but even between people who are one but not the other, you can't rightly say they have any differences but being left-handed or black-haired.

"we geeks have likewise been attacked (in the most frightening way possible, namely, we have been vitally wounded on foundational psychological levels) for irrational reasons (we seek to understand the universe in all ways)."

I can't believe that someone could write this with a straight face. Really? You really think that chosen scapegoat stereotype is thinking "Man, it really pisses me off that that guy wants to understand the universe."

I guess this actually makes sense, since this kind of trainwreck of a thought process demonstrates with brilliant clarity the lack of social awareness, and the rampant narcissism, which is the actual cause for your fully-deserved abuse.

This is because people aren't stupid. At least, not nearly as stupid as you think they are. They see through your bullshit. They know that your "shyness" is actually laziness. You don't want to expend any effort in interacting with others, and you especially don't want to have to go to the trouble of identifying and rectifying flaws in your personality to make it easier for others to interact with you. Yet you still want the rewards that such selflessness naturally brings, namely friends, and the opportunity to leave your house on the weekends for a reason other than to buy ramen. Also, they see what you really think of them; they know about the phrases you use to refer to those you consider your lessors; and they know what you think of their hobbies. They don't much care about Watchmen or Clash of the Titans. They don't know who John Cusack is, and don't want to. These things piss you off, because you can not tolerate people who are different from yourself (oh the irony!). To you, hobbies can be ranked in a hierarchy, from most nerdy (best) to least nerdy (evil). And you believe this hierarchy to be objectively true. And to top it off, you have no self-awareness about any of this. Like the blissfully ignorant xkcd forum-goer who says "points for the Atomic Robo reference" without a hint of self-mockery, you have no idea what an ass you are being.

In short, everybody knows that you are a self-absorbed, two-faced inconsiderate dick with an entitlement complex. You'll hold the door for girls and guys, and scream about being equal-minded all day long on internet forums (never failing to hint that girls should like you because of this), but you'll still check out the girl's ass as long as humanly possible as she walks by. You're a a nihilist preacher. That is why they beat the shit out of you again and again. It's for your own good. Violence is the only effective way to react to someone who clearly doesn't give a shit about anything but the advancement of his ego's agenda.

As for this geek - girl dialogue going around (in circles) the internet these days: Every post, no matter the argument or perspective offered, uses the assumption that girls are strange and different from men in ways that make their experiences incomprehensible as a fundamental axiom. This once again betrays the intellectual dishonesty and laziness that nerds are supposed to oppose. Until these tards wake up and figure out that women are humans like everybody else, no progress will be made.

Although, do they even want progress? Every post boils down to, "Women should like me because X." It's never, "If I want women to be attracted to me, I should find out what it is I should do in order to become more attractive to them, and then expend effort in order to improve myself with regard to this advice." Even though the second sentence is clearly more rational, which nerds should love. Who would have thought that they can be just as oblivious to the flaws in their own reasoning as all other human beings in recorded history? Weren't they supposed to be superior to the rest of us unwashed wal-mart-shopping mouthbreathers?

In summary: The reason no one likes you has nothing to do with your interests, or that you're a "special snowflake" (you're not). I'm fairly certain they don't give two shits about you or anything you like. They don't like you because you refuse to take responsibility for your bullshit. It's called integrity. Get some.

I don't know why I even bother though. Obviously you can just come back and say "lol i'm not like that, nub." And maybe you're not. What the fuck do I know? Anyone reading this, however, knows exactly what I'm talking about. What I have described is not a stereotype, because it describes specific people. Far too many people. This is a real behavioral trend, and it leads to otherism and sociopathy. It must be stopped.

Actually that's retarded. End tribalism and narcissism? Maybe in an airport sci-fi novel. Won't happen in the lifetimes of anyone alive today, likely won't happen ever. Even after we're gone, I'm sure some other species will evolve and start thinking it's better than everyone else just because it has two brains and likes old black and white movies. Probably a law of physics.

Edits (7:22 Feb 26 2010): "tolerant" -> "tolerate" ; "belies" -> "betrays" ; (I think that's the meaning I had in mind. Brain's goin'.) Unsure about "lessors"; spellcheck indicates it's correct (but then it says "spellcheck" is incorrect, so who knows). proofreading credit -> TheLady.

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