I’m actually coming to the conclusion that unless there’s a panel or appointed editor up to the task, all poetry should be banned from e2. Anyone who knows me at all knows I hate to say that, but my anguish in the end was not over having something deleted (God knows I have a combined node heaven larger than most), but because Sharq was simply rude. It doesn’t matter whether I’ve been here forever or that was my first post, that’s not how you should tell someone you’re cutting their stuff. Politeness is always in order and so forth. A lesson it is taking me long to learn.

As for the rest of it, I remain certain that Sharq does not understand the piece of writing he nuked, but he nuked it anyway. We’ve been down this road far too often and my suggestion of us both going to some kind of explanation court is, I know, in the end, a waste of time and unrealistic.

I’m not going to laundry-list responses to whatever he’s had to say, which is why I am writing this offline and am just going to post. It is entirely a storm in a teacup, and one of my own making. The fact is that I have to learn that any admin can nuke stuff if they choose to, that’s a part of e2. It’s arbitrary at times, and impolite at times, but that’s up to the management to manage.

The irony of course is that I felt sorry for clarence when I read his original node about the Mazda a few days ago……knowing how as his first post was going to get (rightly) nuked.

Finally, I would to thanks amnesiac for inspiring me and think it only fair that I acknowledge that The Pakistani Kid is based entirely on him. The Mazda is all my own. It was an old red coupe thing that I drove in London in the early eighties. Falling to pieces. I taught YTS kids (look it up) ‘life’ classes. One afternoon, after a session with some junior hairdressers above a pub in Catford, I offered a couple of the girls a lift home as they lived on my way back to Dulwich. Both went off laughing at me stood beside the Mazda, one calling back: Only Pakis drive Mazdas.

For those who missed the spark, see below:

My dear SharQ:

You delete something that you tell me is not good enough, but suggest instead it should go in the daylog. Which upsets me a little. Especially as I spent two hours writing my crap and -my guess is- you spent two minutes writing yours.

Why don't we, for the sake of e2, use this anguish for a poetry exhibition/explanation?

Consider the Mafia.

I will outline a simple explanation of what the thinking behind this poem was/is, as the writer.

You explain why this poem doesn't deserve its own node, as the editor.

We submit both to a third party who does not allow either of us sight of the others argument but posts both in the same node (or whatever) so that readers can easily see what's up.

Let's be fair, folks are not poetry excited hereabouts so you probably have a majority before you start, but it will be a good way to see the thoughts of the writer and the deleter all at once. Let's try to take the high ground and use this as what it might be, rather than what it might be anguished over.

What do you think? Speak up.


First of all, I should point out that anything and everything expressed in this daylog is my personal opinion. It is not the official opinion of the E2 editors or management in any way, shape, or form.

For the other noders who don't know (or didn't spot the pipelink), Dermot Reilly is, in fact, JohnnyGoodyear. I didn't realise this until after I nuked the write-up in question. Otherwise, I would have left it for another editor to deal with. By the end of this write-up, everyone will realise that Dermot Reilly / JohnnyGoodyear / RangyJoeyHondo / whatever other accounts he might have is firmly on my shitlist. In the interest of integrity, I vow not to touch any of JG's writeups ever again. The other editors can sort out his mess.

I am not in a position to argue for or against poetry on E2. I'm not a big fan / lover of poetry, so in general, I try to ignore it, and leave it to the editors who know about these things. So I will not take you up on that discussion. What I will say, however, is this...

My dear Dermot Reilly,

First of all, I have no idea why this is an issue for the daylogs (As a point of order, you've been around long enough to know that daylogs are usually posted hidden...), as opposed to, say, a message or an e-mail. I strongly doubt anyone is interested in a public catfight.

Having said that, your post is explicitly asking for a reply, so that is what I shall give: A single reply. No further correspondence will be entered into, because in writing this, I have already wasted enough time on you.

About 10 days ago or so, I nuked a writeup by a newbie, who had written a question about how he could change a fuel pump on a 1994 Mazda 626. He had a convoluted story about what had gone wrong, and why he was worried about it, but the essence of the matter was that the write-up didn't have a place on E2 -- it is simply the wrong forum for that sort of questions. As such, I decided to write a simple reply, along the lines of 'I might be able to help you with this, but you would probably be better off asking the exact same question on answers.yahoo.com, as they have a lot of good mechanics, and will be able to point you at some useful resources'.

At first, when I saw your writeup, Dermot, with the title how do you change fuel pump in 1994 mazda 626, I thought it was the same guy again, and I went there, to find out if perhaps he had managed to find out how to do it, and subsequently decided to node his experiences. It would have been a great way to be introduced to E2.

Instead, I find a poem. Fair enough, I thought, perhaps he decided to write up his experiences in poetic form. Instead of anything actually remotely useful, I found a poem which triteness is bordering on the offensive in terms of a waste of everyone's time.

Quite apart from the fact that the poem is a bag of festering shite, without any redeeming poetic or prosaic features, it is also offensive to the extreme: your so-called poem starts '"how do you change fuel pump in 1994 mazda 626" shouts The Pakistani Kid just off the boat from Pakistan'.

Imagine, just for a minute, that you were the new noder joining E2. You ask a genuine question, you get some help, and are uhm-ing and ah-ing about whether or not you wish to join the community and start writing. Then, some Joe Q. Random writes a write-up about you and your troubles, starting off by calling him a Pakistani kid just off the boat from Pakistan. How would you react? Exactly. That's no way to treat baby noders.

In my personal opinion, JG, you are a coward. You keep setting up new accounts, and posting a few good writeups -- I can't deny that -- and then you start posting stuff that spirals downward in quality, as if you are daring somebody to say something. In a way, it works, and I would liken your practices to a band like Metallica: Starting off great like an all-cock, all-balls heavy metal band that didn't pull any punches. Then they started doing ballads and singing songs about babies and sadness and all that shite, and nobody called them on their bluff: They got away with it, they were big-name superstars, and people wanted to like it. But at the bottom of our hearts, we all know it: It's fucking drivel, and nobody should have to suffer through all that sort of bullshit. Hell, if you've seen Monster, you realise that even Metallica knew that what they were doing was embarrassingly bad.

About 2 years ago, JG, you wrote the following to a new noder who was just finding his feet on E2. This noder was my mentee. He came to me, worrying if he should stay here, or if there really wasn't any point in trying to realise his dreams to become a writer:

"JohnnyGoodyear says You are by no means a bad noder; just a bad writer. You may not get over it, but you will get used to it."

I guess what I'm trying to say to you is an echo of your own words: You are by no means a bad writer, just a bad noder. And personally, I think E2 would be a much better place if you would just fuck off...


Much love,


That's what Dad has picked up during his stay at Norwalk Hospital. I found out last night when I went to see him.

I hate these people. I want to carpet bomb the whole goddamn facility. I want to ship these bastards off to Gitmo. After I torture them.

The array of tests he was in the hospital for show that there is a 70 percent blockage of his left carotid artery and he was supposed to go back to Yale for a consultation today and surgery next week. Only now he can't because he's stuck in Norwalk for another week and then two to four weeks of recovery either in a nursing home (he's 68 on March 12) or at home because he'll need antibiotics delivered via IV for that long. This staph infection is in his left arm and has entered his blood stream. They're relatively certain it hasn't entered his heart.

Eight years ago on the 27th of this month I lost my Mother. It was a blessing for her, when she died. She suffered so long. I'm not ready for this, the reality of he might not survive all that's going on in his body.

I'm just not ready for this but I don't have any choice. I just have to suck it up and deal.

She should have died hereafter;
There would have been a time for such a word.
To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day
To the last syllable of recorded time,
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

He's no Saint, but his name is David and it's Saint David's day.

Personally, I don't know what SharQ has against Good Year blimps OR Mazdas made in Pakistan. I'm sure they do a very good job of making both of them. And I don't care what either of you say, Dermot Mulroney is a good actor. Did you see him in My Best Friend's Wedding? He made that movie, man.

There, I've pretty much solved that argument. Any more disputes you need me to fix? Bring it on!

Oh, come on, lighten up you people!

On the Matter of Dermot Reilly

Disgust. This whole thing has been utterly disgusting.

It happens over and over again.

A writer writes something difficult, dense, challenging to read. He or she posts it.

An editor or god reads it and nukes it, demands unwarranted tweaks that change the integrity of the piece, or moves it to a daylog.

As Dermot mentioned above, the writer spent hours formatting and linking their writeup. The editor spends minutes deciding it's shit, and exiles it or ruins it.

If the author is a true artist, someone who cares about words, does she have the right to be pissed? You bet.

Does the author have much recourse? A bit, but not much. The decision can be appealed, but for younger writers, this comes at some risk to their fledgling reputation. Older writers can do the same. If they are respected, the change may be rescinded.

If the CE/god is extra volatile, he or she may dig in their heels, argue their case, and argue vociferously that the author doesn't know what they're doing, goes against E2 policies, etc. Those are the commonly given reasons. This happens behind closed doors, within the E2 CE discussion group. Sometimes editors argue just to argue. Sometimes they just want to win, and art be damned. This seems to be happening more lately.

Many editors are conscientious. They help writers with grammar, spelling, nodeshell title suggestions, content, form and sometimes even structure.

Almost all really good editors read a lot. By 'read' I don't mean within Everything2, I mean in literature at large. They read difficult works. I've mentioned a few: Shakespeare, James Joyce, Franz Kafka, Ezra Pound, ee cummings, TS Eliot, Milton, to name just a few. They know where literature's been, and where it's going. They know its breadth and width. They are comfortable with difficulty. They love seeing younger writers wrestle with language, with finding their own style. They are not arrogant. Sometimes, they are blunt, but mostly they encourage.

A few are not adequate to the task. They may be good writers, but personality quirks hinder their ability to be good editors. They may have strong preferences for or against content, form or style of writing. Some like poetry. Some don't. Some understand poetry. Some don't. Some like dense, Kafkaesque fiction. Some don't get it at all. Some appreciate experimental writing. Some don't. They might be stubborn dicks who don't like to be challenged. They might be arrogant and me-centric. They might be so entranced by the normal E2 style of writing that they can't understand any other way.

E2 has stifled a few great writers. It is the oddest thing to me, but the one man who keeps getting hammered here is JohnnyGoodyear/Dermot Reilly. How can we deny the incredible writing talent of this man? He does not fit into E2, for reasons beyond my ken. So who or what has to change? Does Dermot? No. I think the E2 organization needs to change.

Michael Jordan was the best basketball player of all time. He was so dominant that the Chicago Bulls changed their entire team to accommodate his prodigious talent. Trades and drafts for new players were made just to make Michael Jordan more effective. Result: The Chicago Bulls won six NBA titles so long as Jordan played at his peak.

By contrast, LaVar Arrington could have been the best linebacker in the history of American football. His coaches changed his playing style and when he did not conform, they benched him. This went on for years. To a man, the Washington Redskins defense who desperately needed his help, decried benching such a fantastic talent. Finally he left the Redskins in disgust. A year or two later, his defensive coach was removed largely because of the Arrington case. The Washington football franchise was widely viewed as having made a huge mistake paying Arrington's high salary and getting nothing for it in return, because the defensive coach was too stubborn to adapt his tactics to Arrington's talent.

An organization must flex to accommodate its best people. If it does not, it just descends into mediocrity. Right now, I don't see E2 doing much flexing. The leading lights should be begging on bended knee for Dermot to display his full skills for this site. They should change whatever they have to change to make that happen.

I would love to be associated with a web site with buzz, an often googled, often visited site, an excellent site. But rules do not beget excellence. Only excellence begets excellence.

Log in or register to write something here or to contact authors.