Everything2
Near Matches
Ignore Exact
Full Text
Everything2

When American writers use Latin, or other languages

created by whizkid

(idea) by whizkid (6 y) (print)   ?   1 C! I like it! Mon Jul 03 2000 at 18:22:09

They often come up with some very strange results.

  • Anne Rice

    In one of her books, an ancient Egyptian mummy is brought to a museum in Europe (London if I recall correctly). It turns out the mummified Pharaoh is immortal, so he unwraps and comes back to life.

    When he encounters a present-day person, he speaks in Latin, and says:

    "Panis!"

    Coming to that point, I am immediately thrust from concentrating on the story to a bout of laughter. Not because a Pharaoh would choose Latin to communicate (the author had somehow explained that oddity), but why would he say panis? Panis, of course, is the Latin word for bread, nominative case. In other words, what the Pharaoh was saying at that dramatic moment was "Bread! Behold the bread!" But Anne Rice made it quite clear there was no bread around to behold.

    The author then goes on making her own translation, and it turns out the Pharaoh was hungry and was actually asking for some bread.

    Oh, you mean he meant to exclaim "Panem!", I'm thinking, finally getting it. The poor Pharaoh must have forgotten his Latin grammar during all those centuries inside the sarcophagus. He forgot that to ask for bread he needed to use the accusative case.

    Or maybe it was just that Anne Rice simply looked up bread in her Latin dictionary and assumed that gave her all the information she needed.

  • Robert Ludlum

    One of the first books I read in English after coming to America was a spy novel by Robert Ludlum.

    About two thirds down, a female Czech spy encounters a male Czech spy. She mistakenly believes he wants to kill her. A very thrilling situation. Fearing for her life, she exclaims:

    "Prasátko!"

    Well, again, I'm completely thrust out of the story. I just keep wondering, why on earth would she cry out "Cute little piglet!"

    I try to keep reading, when suddenly she says in English, "Pig!" Now that makes sense. In English, anyway.

    No matter what word Robert Ludlum would have looked up under pig in his Czech dictionary, it would have come out wrong. The Czech word for pig is prase (prasátko is diminuitive). The problem is that exclaiming "Pig!" in English is an idiom. Exclaiming "Prase!" in Czech would mean, "Boy, are you dirty! Go take a shower!" Or, depending on the context, it could mean, "Quit eating so fast!"

    The funny thing is, had Robert Ludlum looked up swine in his dictionary, he would have found the right Czech word for the situation.

My advice to American writers: Never assume the rest of the world thinks the same way English speakers do. And never assume your readers won't notice. If you want to use a foreign word or phrase, forget your dictionary, consult with a native speaker, or, in case of a dead language like Latin, consult with an expert.


(idea) by Gone Jackal (2 wk) (print)   ?   I like it! Fri Oct 27 2000 at 4:25:04

Or, even better, just learn the bloody language already. It's not just Americans, though. Terry Pratchett often uses incorrect Latin in his books, though generally it's done well enough so that most people don't notice (besides, the jokes are funnier that way).

And by the way, what Pharaoh was it? A late Ptolemaic one might have known Latin much better than Egyptian. Besides, waking from the dead after several thousand years and screaming out a monosyllabic 't!' (or even the full phrase 'rdi//s t') just doesn't sound as nice.


(idea) by Rudra (6.1 mon) (print)   ?   I like it! Wed Jul 10 2002 at 18:24:09

I remember reading in a book called Falling Angel, which, I believe was the basis for the film Angel Heart:

Invito te venire ad missa niger...

At this point in the narrative, the protagonist has uncovered an invitation to a Black Mass. From what I can see, it seems the author wrote out the sentence in English and then looked up the appropriate Latin words in a dictionary. Of course, it is possible that the author wanted to show the character who wrote the invitation didn't know Latin well, but I think that's a stretch.

Anyway, not only are the words in question not in the right inflection, but the syntax is all wrong. An infinitive clause like this could be used in Latin only for indirect statement, for example, if someone wanted to say, "I hear that you are coming to the Black Mass":

Audio te venire ad missam nigram

(Note also it is ad missam nigram, not ad missa nigra. Ad takes the accusative case.)

In commands and requests, an infinitive clause is not used, but a subordinate clause using the subjunctive. In this case it would be:

Invito te ut ad missam nigram venias.


printable version
chaos

Nolite te bastardes carbondonum The 10 bad listening habits Tu dicis, puer! Incorrect grammar which might be an improvement
Who is McDonald's kidding? What do girls think about guys when they catch guys staring at their breasts, but the guy is actually trying to read her shirt? Aspects of American society that may be new to you Anne Rice
Perl as a functional language Looks like 1984 was only n years off Latin Accusative
Romance Language firing gangster style Molotov The Books of Magic
Terry Pratchett Robert Ludlum Catching a squirrel Te occidere possunt sed te edere non possunt nefas est
On Becoming a Global Citizen At this point in time native speaker Anglo-Saxon words for animals, French words for meat
Y'know, if you log in, you can write something here, or contact authors directly on the site. Create a New User if you don't already have an account.
  Epicenter
Login
Password

password reminder
register

Everything2 Help


cooled by ToasterLeavings

Cool Staff Picks
Nodes to live by:
Latin Numbers
Ornette Coleman
the Literary Canon
Selected Ambient Works II
The day I realized how sane I really am
The Final Cut
Mahatma Gandhi
Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882
Bedazzled
Miami Herald, 2/13/96
How to tune a guitar
Drew Barrymore
The Subjunctive Mood of English
New Writeups
auraseer
Fling(fiction)
StrawberryFrog
Iron Man(review)
devolution
Misogyny and Porn, East to West - An Empirical Analysis(idea)
devolution
Korea is a place that refuses to stand still(idea)
Beanie127
The Pacifist Soldier(fiction)
VergilKint
Distilled from Dreams(fiction)
Scaevola
Roman marriage(thing)
rootbeer277
m&m's Ice Cream Treats(review)
Transitional Man
Gus's Chalet(review)
minnow
.410 bore(thing)
shaogo
Phonautogram(thing)
Morkel
Changing your sexuality(idea)
teleny
Baron Samedi(person)
Ouzo
The Great Barbershop Race Wars(log)
Mannerisky
second language(essay)
Everything 2 is brought to you by the letter C and The Everything Development Company