Everything2
Near Matches
Ignore Exact
Full Text
Everything2

irrational-base number system

created by Ulysses

(thing) by Ulysses (3.7 wk) (print)   ?   (I like it!) 1 C! Thu Jun 15 2000 at 8:01:31

A number system that is based on an irrational number or numbers, or is composed entirely of irrational numbers. i.e. pi, e, and the square root of 2.

(idea) by Sylvar (3.9 wk) (print)   ?   (I like it!) 1 C! Thu Jun 15 2000 at 10:28:35

An example would be base pi, like this:

3021pi = 3pi3 + 0 + 2pi + 1

You might be asking yourself: what's the use of that? Wouldn't any useful number have an infinite pi-cimal representation? Well, yes and no. 0 and 1 are still 0 and 1 in any base. And if you're working with circles, spheres, and "spheres" in more than 3 dimensions, base pi is fairly useful. But it's true that most rational numbers would have an infinite number of digits in base pi.

Base sqrt(2) is even more useful, since it becomes base 2 (binary) if you set every other digit to 0. Think about it:

(ai x 2i) + (ai-1 x 2i-1) + ... + (a1 x 21) + (a0 x 20) ...

is really the same as

(ai x sqrt(2)2i) + (ai-1 x sqrt(2)2(i-1)) + ... + (a1 x sqrt(2)2x1) + (a0 x sqrt(2)2x0) ...

and so you have a system that can comfortably be used for rational numbers, by skipping every other digit, and can also be used to express numbers that have more to do with fractional powers of 2.


(thing) by FordPrefect (4.4 y) (print)   ?   (I like it!) 1 C! Sun Jun 25 2000 at 0:18:35

The problem with base sqrt(2) is that numbers would have multiple possible representations.

For example, I could represent decimal 12 as 1010000sqrt(2), because 4+8=12. But a base conversion algorithm would give the result: 100000000.01001000000001...sqrt(2) because sqrt(2)^7, or 11.313712, is closer to 12 than sqrt(2)^6, or 8. Thus, in base sqrt(2), the number 12 is rational and irrational at the same time.

A writeup in base pi points out that this problem occurs in any non-integral base.


(idea) by Seqram (5.1 y) (print)   ?   (I like it!) Wed Sep 13 2000 at 1:38:55

Actually, FordPrefect, it isn't the fact that it's less than 2 that causes the problem.

Consider base sqrt(5), which is greater than 2. (sqrt(5) ~ 2.236). Take decimal 280, which is 2010100sqrt(5). But the usual conversion routines will give 10000000.1001...sqrt(5), since sqrt(5)7 is 279.51, which is closer to 280 than 2*sqrt(5)6, or 250.

Same for base sqrt(10), which in some ways is easier to work in, and is greater than 3. 322 decimal is "obviously" 30202sqrt(10), but it's also 100012.12...sqrt(10), by similar reasonings.

I'm thinking it may also have to do with the way the base0 place works. Ponder: the equations 10-1=(b-1) (where b-1 is the digit for one less than the base b) works for all integer bases, but does not work for irrational bases. The problem is that we're using integer multiples of integer powers of the base, and when the base isn't an integer that isn't so well-behaved anymore.


printable version
chaos

"42" is even to any base Feature request for Universe 2.0 base pi Fibonacci base
Deathmatch: e vs pi interesting number bases How to determine whether a number is even or odd in any base e
bluetooth Also starring a telephone as "The Telephone" All bases are base 10 irrational number
Dozenal Society of America base 20 False! pi
base e Memory Base 128 well-behaved The Base project
Base nine number system base 2 prefixes Killer Instinct mathematics
Y'know, if you log in, you can write something here, or contact authors directly on the site. Create a New User if you don't already have an account.
  Epicenter
Login
Password

password reminder
register

Everything2 Help

Cool Staff Picks
The best nodes of all time:
Women, Espionage, and the Civil War
A soulless pumpkin
The Pinball and Sex hypothesis
Pinkerton
Latin
Minamoto Yoshitsune
Encyclopedia on a toothpick
Praying mantis
The Art of the Mix Tape
Driving in Italy
Letter to Dr. Laura
Jiddu Krishnamurti
She will remember your heart when men are fairy tales in books written by rabbits
New Writeups
SwimmingMonkey
(new writeup)
locke baron
lynx(thing)
Simulacron3
Reality, Dimensions and the Natural Ontology(essay)
SubSane
Making Love to a 9-Foot Woman(person)
Ouzo
Thoughts(idea)
antigravpussy
I fall silent, listening. The breadcrumbs are talking about us(person)
calgon
Buffalo Bill by the pool(poetry)
gate
Anarchy is Order(idea)
ushdfgakjasgh
Scribeling(thing)
XWiz
Trism(review)
artman2003
Briefcase Full of Souls - Part I(fiction)
Dreamvirus
Alan Ladd(person)
waverider37
Harold Holt(person)
The Debutante
Until death do us part(fiction)
Ysardo
a brother to a sister(personal)
This affordable entertainment brought to you by The Everything Development Company